Special Ballot EXAMPLE

[Tarik Hadid]

I agree with that, but I think you're coming across wrong if that is your entire point. In your posts it sounds like you are arguing against the whole special ballot.

Now the wording of the blank vote is unlikely, but certainly possible, to affect the result but I agree it could be worded better. But not having a special ballot for the three possibilities is *very* likely to effect the result of the voting.

I could care less whether we record abstainers as yes or no, but having the special ballot itself is very important. Is that all that you are arguing?

My concern is this:

100 voters
60 like FU
40 don't like FU

if the 4 rules are FU1, FU2, FU3 and NOFU

What if the voting went like this?

30 FU1
20 FU2
10 FU3
40 NOFU

Then even with a majority favoring FU it still gets voted out because the votes are diluted by 3 similar proposal.

This is the purpose of the special ballot.

[Chris Burgess]

Your example is not how the special ballot would be laid out. There wouldn't be a "NOFU" in the choices. That is part of the top level "Yes"/"No" quesiton.

So you have to care how abstainers are recorded because they determine if the special portion gets done.

As it stands ALL ballots sent out will have the special ballot marked as a "no". The ballot does not need to be returned as you need to count ALL ballots you send out since abstain equals "No". This means if you like FU, it won't exist next year in its current form since this is going to be one of the special ballots and not enough people return their ballots.

Interesting problem isn't it?

And...

How is this post confusing and not direct to the point I've been making all along?

http://omrra.com/forums/showpost.php...01&postcount=5

[Tarik Hadid]

Originally Posted by Chris Burgess

Your example is not how the special ballot would be laid out. There wouldn't be a "NOFU" in the choices. That is part of the top level "Yes"/"No" quesiton.

So you have to care how abstainers are recorded because they determine if the special portion gets done.

As it stands ALL ballots sent out will have the special ballot marked as a "no". The ballot does not need to be returned as you need to count ALL ballots you send out since abstain equals "No". This means if you like FU, it won't exist next year in its current form since this is going to be one of the special ballots and not enough people return their ballots.

Interesting problem isn't it?

And...

How is this post confusing and not direct to the point I've been making all along?

http://omrra.com/forums/showpost.php...01&postcount=5

The way I read it, the special ballot will look something like this:

[YES/NO] Do we want to change the existing FU point system (abstain = NO)

Regardless of your YES/NO vote you must choose one of the following

1) 3 sets of top 5 plates

2) 1-3 FU, 4-5 clubman

3) Clarify point chart rule

4) Eliminate Triple Points

3 rules to modify FU and 1 rule that eliminates triple points entirely like I posted above. The YES/NO part of the vote is not for any specific rule, it is to avoid the situation where the votes for changes to FU get diluted while everyone that is against triple points votes for the same option. The option for no FU is still an item that gets voted on.

Also I doubt that ALL ballots that are sent out but not returned get a NO. I read it to mean that all returned ballots where it is left blank get counted as NO.

[Chris Burgess]

Originally Posted by Tarik Hadid

The way I read it, the special ballot will look something like this:



3 rules to modify FU and 1 rule that eliminates triple points entirely like I posted above. The YES/NO part of the vote is not for any specific rule, it is to avoid the situation where the votes for changes to FU get diluted while everyone that is against triple points votes for the same option. The option for no FU is still an item that gets voted on.

Also I doubt that ALL ballots that are sent out but not returned get a NO. I read it to mean that all returned ballots where it is left blank get counted as NO.

What if the question is "Should we leave the FU Point system alone?"

The No's get the vote and bam the FU point system changes.

Double edge sword and it is not a definative model.

[Tarik Hadid]

Originally Posted by Chris Burgess

What if the question is "Should we leave the FU Point system alone?"

The No's get the vote and bam the FU point system changes.

Double edge sword and it is not a definative model.

I'm not arguing "what ifs", just what the rules committee actually did:

Originally Posted by Geoff Ford

The special ballot format used this year was proposed as an attempt to insure that a majority of the voters did want to change the current rules

[Chris Burgess]

Originally Posted by Tarik Hadid

I'm not arguing "what ifs", just what the rules committee actually did:

Where is the ballot? I haven't seen it been put out. I did an example with donuts but not the language on the actual ballot. My "what if" to make a point matters on what language is used.

[Janice Logan]

Newsletter goes to the mailing house on Friday, so should be in your boxes next week. Ballot and membership form will be available Tuesday, I believe, electronically.

[Tarik Hadid]

Originally Posted by Chris Burgess

Where is the ballot? I haven't seen it been put out. I did an example with donuts but not the language on the actual ballot. My "what if" to make a point matters on what language is used.

What you posted is exactly the opposite of what Geoff said it would be.

[Chris Burgess]

Originally Posted by Tarik Hadid

What you posted is exactly the opposite of what Geoff said it would be.

Like race tracks...I don't believe it until I see it.

[Pam Rathbone]

Brian,
Ya'll need to get legal advise on this. I actually hate to admit it (sorry Chris)
but I think Chris is correct
abstaining on a response is not the same as a no
when you take votes at one of the board meetings you can vote no, or you can abstain
2 different responses that are counted differently. . . .
just get a legal opinion and the discussion will be over